XPLOR Very poor gas mileage

	Very poor gas mileage
Ray Joined: Jan 31, 2007 Location: SACRAMENTO, CA	Hi; I am looking for opinions regarding a fuel problem with my bike... I live in Sacramento, Calif. and I am having a problem with my 2003 BMW R 1200 CL with about 3200 miles... My problem is the gas mileage... I have had the bike about 5 months and when I first got it, I was averaging about 42 mpg... About 2 months ago the mileage changed to a miserly 25 mpg... That is about a 17 mpg drop... My cars now get better gas mileage than the bike... I have taken it to my local BMW dealer several times, once they looked at it while I was there and gave it back to me after about a half an hour or so, and basically told me they could find nothing wrong with the bike... After about 6 or 7 more tanks of gas, the mileage remained about the same, approximately 25 -26 mpg... I returned it to the same local shop and left it for about a week and a half for the same problem, very poor gas mileage... My complaint was the poor mileage, and at times, usually at very slow speeds I can smell gas but never found any on the garage floor or on the street when I parked it... A friend and I thought that maybe the gas was some how leaking into the oil pan, so we drained the oil and my friend said that he thought that he could smell gas there, so we changed the oil just prior to taking it to the shop the next day... I didn't want to drive it over 10 miles with diluted oil, just in case... I have been using premium gas... Anyway, after a week and a half in the shop, the shop manager said that they could find nothing wrong with the bike and that the poor mileage had to do with the winter blend of fuel in California... I was told, jokingly, I think, that if I wanted to get better gas mileage then I would have to move to another state... That they could find no other reason for this problem... I decided to call around and see if this was the case with other bikes of the same model... Conclusion was that it was not... That I might get about a maximum drop in mileage of about 10%, which would be about 4 mpg, not 17 mpg... I talked to another BMW shop in Calif. and the manager there said that they were not being honest or ignorant and that it should be fixed and if I took it in to them, they would fix it... They are about 400 miles away and I am not really able to drop the bike off there... Also have written to a few Beemer forums and they basically say that my local shop service dept was wrong and misleading... I have decided to try contacting a few more BMW shops to get their opinions regarding this fuel issue... Bike is still in warranty until 7/07... By the way, I usually take my Mercedes to the same gas station where I normally fill up the bike and I have not had any decline in gas mileage with my cars... And the car gets about 30 + mpg... 3000lbs vs 800lbs... Hmmm??? Any and all help would be appreciated... TIA, Ray Posted on 01/31/2007 at 16:51
R100gspd Joined: Jan 11, 2007 Location: Rosendale, NY	Re: Very poor gas mileage could it possibly be something as silly as a dirty air filter? And I'm not at all familiar with fuel injection, but could it be needing a computer reboot? or the jets are worn out or varnished up somehow? I'm sure the dealer checked the obvious things.. spark plugs close to death... tire pressures... No other symptoms? just a large drop in mpg one day? You didnt start carrying around an anvil two months ago, did you? edit-- another stupid thought-- maybe its your odometer thats not working properly... leads to bad math. That kind of thing explains why they cant find it in the shop, anyway. Posted on 01/31/2007 at 17:19
Roborider Joined: Nov 17, 2006 Location: Raleigh, NC	Re: Very poor gas mileage Are you certain it has dropped, that it's not a calculation error or sensor error. You'd notice a serious drop in total range with that drop. Do you notice that drop in range? Rob Posted on 01/31/2007 at 18:15
Def38 Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Location: Katy, TX	Re: Very poor gas mileage Here is how I would begin; 1- Instal clean sparkplugs in the engine. Ride the bike normally for a week and read the plugs. If they are blackened with soot you have a fueling problem. 2- Monitor your mileage carefully. Commuting and regular riding should yield about 40 MPG on your model. If it is less than 30 MPG, you need an expert to diagnos your problem. Yes, the previous poster says check the air filter........good advice. Changes in fuel blends will NOT produce the dramatic drop in fuel mileage you report. --------------------------------- Dennis Posted on 01/31/2007 at 18:27
Lblake49 Joined: Jan 31, 2007 Location: Danville, CA	Re: Very poor gas mileage I live a little south of you in Danville, CA (east of Oakland) so probably use the same "California winter blend" as you. I usually use Chevron or Shell and see no reduction in gas mileage on any of my motorcycles (R1200RT, K1200S) or my car so I doubt your dealers explaination. Posted on 01/31/2007 at 19:48
Rickyj Joined: Jan 16, 2007 Location: Apex, NC	Re: Very poor gas mileage A 40% drop in gas mileage is extremely unusual, especially if the bike isn't running roughly or noticeably different. And I certainly would expect better gas mileage from a boxer engine than 25 mpg. Do you know what mileage you're getting from highway vs. city driving? Posted on 01/31/2007 at 23:13
Onefastbob Joined: Feb 01, 2007 Location: Cunningham, KS	Re: Very poor gas mileage This may or may not help. If that were my bike I would disconnect the battery for 30 min. then reconnect it. I will relearn all it's settings and that may fix the problem. Sure would be worth trying. Thanks Bob Posted on 02/01/2007 at 20:21
Blaney14j Joined: Jan 31, 2007 Location: Babylon, NY	Re: Very poor gas mileage Onefastbob said: This may or may not help. If that were my bike I would disconnect the battery for 30 min. then reconnect it. I will relearn all it's settings and that may fix the problem. Sure would be worth trying too bad the battery on a R12CFL is under the tank! --------------------------------- Blaney Posted on 02/01/2007 at 22:55
Geoff Joined: Feb 02, 2007 Location: Naperville, IL	Re: Very poor gas mileage In the Midwest and other cold weather states, gas stations use a winter fuel that's blended to help prevent fuel line freeze-up. Many say this fuel contributes to lower MPG. A 40% drop is significant, however. Your bike might have a weak spark, or it might need a re-map to refresh the EFI system. Was the factory map modified? --------------------------------- 1994 K1100RS & 2005 Harley Electra Glide Posted on 02/02/2007 at 14:25
Baker330i Joined: Feb 01, 2007 Location: Roswell, GA	Re: Very poor gas mileage Ray, I have found that sometimes when you get a huge drop in MPG the O2 sensor is a likely culprit.I have personally had this happen to me.The odd thing about a bad O2 sensor it is not always picked up by BMW GT computer (both times it happen to me computer showed no faults) Best way to check is with gas analyzer MB Posted on 02/02/2007 at 17:13
Csteinman Joined: Dec 24, 2006 Location: Austin, TX	Re: Very poor gas mileage Hmmm . . . Drop in gas mileage . . . a fuel smell . . . no noticeable change in engine response . . . I'm going to go with: a slow leak in one of the the quick connects in your fuel lines between the tank and the fuel rail. The fuel lines will only leak when the bike is running. You might want to let the bike idle and check (with a flashlight) for a slow dripping fuel leak in the quick connects. Just a guess, and please let us know what the problem ends being. Charlie --------------------------------- 401K? Retirement? Ha! Don't be ridiculous! Posted on 02/02/2007 at 19:02
Koski69 Joined: Feb 02, 2007 Location: Pleasanton, CA	Re: Very poor gas mileage Since you're in California, you should have a charcoal cannister. Check to make sure the inlet hose from the fuel tank is in good shape and attached securely. Posted on 02/02/2007 at 20:44
Ray Joined: Jan 31, 2007 Location: SACRAMENTO, CA	Re: Very poor gas mileage Thanks for all of the responses. I do not want to work on the bike myself being as I am still in warranty, so I won't be able to try your various suggestions... I have again taken it to the shop for the 3rd time and also sent them most of my forum and email letters and that seems to have awakened them to take a closer look at this problem. I will now try to answer all of your great ideas, if I can. R100gspd: I am pretty sure that they rebooted the computer at the shop the first time, though I was not given any real detailed receipt of the work done. They mentioned that they had checked it out, but I can only take their word for it. It would seem silly for them not to do it. They mentioned that my tire pressure was a pound or two low, but nothing serious. It just started getting the bad mileage one day without any obvious signs. No mention of the plugs condition. I tested it by driving to a nearby town and back, which is about 80 miles round trip and the odometer odometerized OK. lol Roborider: That is the same question that the shop originally ask. As for a sensor error, that is for the shop to determine. Again, I am not going to touch it while under warranty. I will have plenty of time for that in about 6 months. I do prefer to have it fixed on their dime. I can fill the tank and after a dab more than 75 miles the reserve light comes on and by the time I get to a station, I have gone about 81-84 miles and at refill will add 3.1 - 3.3 gallons. By the way, that is how I noticed the change. I usually reset my odometer at every fill up, even before I noted the problem. Def38: It is now in the shop, but some good suggestions. Never did check the air filter. Haven't been near any off road places and only have about 3200 mi on it. Lblake49: I also doubted their explanation and that is why I decided to do a little research on my own. I have owned enough bikes to know when I am having wind blown up my er, tail pipe... ;>) I usually use ARCO, the cheapy stations. Rickyj; No, Ricky, most of my driving is mixed. To get any where in Sacramento, you usually have to use the freeways, the town is basically spaced out. Not like SF, NY or LA. Hell, we have mosquitos down town. that should tell you something. lol Onefastbob; Don't think that I wasn't tempted, but like I have said before, "Warranty". Very good point though. Blaney14j; I think that I would make a very good politician, because I also agree with you. lol Me no touchie for now. ;-} Geoff; Nothing has been modified so that any changes to the EFI could only have been done by the shop/factory. I will try to let you all know what they have found when I get it back from the shop. Baker330i; A very good point and one that hasn't been suggested before, regarding the O2 sensor. Will call the shop tomorrow and see what they think about it. Csteinman; I thought about the quick connects leaking and also the automatic fuel valve shutoff malfunctioning. Nothing found to show any leaks, cases dry, floor clean and dry and the only thing that isn't dry are the tears on my face. Koski69; They should have checked that the second time I took it in. Also, I think that I heard about a recall on one of the bikes for that very thing. Before I took it in did a quick recheck yesterday and found that the fuel smell was coming from the exhaust. It was running very rich and I just couldn't tell you as to how the shop missed it. When I went there and mention the smoke was instructed on boxers as to why all the grey smoke and fuel smell but I guess I am just hardheaded and feel that I was being talked down to, regarding bikes. I must look really dumb or have scared the pants off of them. In reality, I think that they all mean well and they want to fix the problem just as much as I want it fixed. After all, it is a fairly strange symptom. Give me about a week or two to get back here to give you the info on what they have found. And thanks again, all of you, for the great support. Ray Posted on 02/03/2007 at 04:48
Csteinman Joined: Dec 24, 2006 Location: Austin, TX	Re: Very poor gas mileage Thanks Ray. It sure sounds like the culprit might be the O2 sensor. For some reason, the zero-zero setting of the throttle position sensors are popping into my mind. You'd probably feel that in the engine though. Let us know . . . Charlie --------------------------------- 401K? Retirement? Ha! Don't be ridiculous! Posted on 02/03/2007 at 08:51
Def38 Joined: Jan 21, 2007 Location: Katy, TX	Re: Very poor gas mileage Koski69 said: Since you're in California, you should have a charcoal cannister. Check to make sure the inlet hose from the fuel tank is in good shape and attached securely. BMWs are compliant in all 50 states and therefore, all have a cannister. The previous poster who suggested a fuel leak is likely correct. The smell of fuel should be the tipoff. --------------------------------- Dennis Posted on 02/04/2007 at 09:58

Ray

Joined: Jan 31, 2007

Location: SACRAMENTO, CA

Hi;

I am looking for opinions regarding a fuel problem with my bike...

I live in Sacramento, Calif. and I am having a problem with my 2003 BMW R 1200 CL with about 3200 miles...

My problem is the gas mileage... I have had the bike about 5 months and when I first got it, I was averaging about 42 mpg... About 2 months ago the mileage changed to a miserly 25 mpg... That is about a 17 mpg drop... My cars now get better gas mileage than the bike...

I have taken it to my local BMW dealer several times, once they looked at it while I was there and gave it back to me after about a half an hour or so, and basically told me they could find nothing wrong with the bike...

After about 6 or 7 more tanks of gas, the mileage remained about the same, approximately 25 -26 mpg...

I returned it to the same local shop and left it for about a week and a half for the same problem, very poor gas mileage...

My complaint was the poor mileage, and at times, usually at very slow speeds I can smell gas but never found any on the garage floor or on the street when I parked it... A friend and I thought that maybe the gas was some how leaking into the oil pan, so we drained the oil and my friend said that he thought that he could smell gas there, so we changed the oil just prior to taking it to the shop the next day... I didn't want to drive it over 10 miles with diluted oil, just in case... I have been using premium gas...

Anyway, after a week and a half in the shop, the shop manager said that they could find nothing wrong with the bike and that the poor mileage had to do with the winter blend of fuel in California... I was told, jokingly, I think, that if I wanted to get better gas mileage then I would have to move to another state... That they could find no other reason for this problem...

I decided to call around and see if this was the case with other bikes of the same model...

Conclusion was that it was not... That I might get about a maximum drop in mileage of about 10%, which would be about 4 mpg, not 17 mpg...

I talked to another BMW shop in Calif. and the manager there said that they were not being honest or ignorant and that it should be fixed and if I took it in to them, they would fix it... They are about 400 miles away and I am not really able to drop the bike off there...

Also have written to a few Beemer forums and they basically say that my local shop service dept was wrong and misleading...

I have decided to try contacting a few more BMW shops to get their opinions regarding this fuel issue... Bike is still in warranty until 7/07...

By the way, I usually take my Mercedes to the same gas station where I normally fill up the bike and I have not had any decline in gas mileage with my cars... And the car gets about 30 + mpg... 3000lbs vs 800lbs... Hmmm???

Any and all help would be appreciated...

TIA,
Ray

Posted on 01/31/2007 at 16:51

R100gspd

Joined: Jan 11, 2007

Location: Rosendale, NY

Re: Very poor gas mileage

could it possibly be something as silly as a dirty air filter?

And I'm not at all familiar with fuel injection, but could it be needing a computer reboot? or the jets are worn out or varnished up somehow?

I'm sure the dealer checked the obvious things.. spark plugs close to death... tire pressures...

No other symptoms? just a large drop in mpg one day? You didnt start carrying around an anvil two months ago, did you?

edit-- another stupid thought-- maybe its your odometer thats not working properly... leads to bad math. That kind of thing explains why they cant find it in the shop, anyway.

Posted on 01/31/2007 at 17:19

Roborider

Joined: Nov 17, 2006

Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Are you certain it has dropped, that it's not a calculation error or sensor error. You'd notice a serious drop in total range with that drop. Do you notice that drop in range?

Rob

Posted on 01/31/2007 at 18:15

Def38

Joined: Jan 21, 2007

Location: Katy, TX

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Here is how I would begin;

1- Instal clean sparkplugs in the engine. Ride the bike normally for a week and read the plugs. If they are blackened with soot you have a fueling problem.

2- Monitor your mileage carefully. Commuting and regular riding should yield about 40 MPG on your model. If it is less than 30 MPG, you need an expert to diagnos your problem.

Yes, the previous poster says check the air filter........good advice.

Changes in fuel blends will NOT produce the dramatic drop in fuel mileage you report.

---------------------------------

Dennis

Posted on 01/31/2007 at 18:27

Lblake49

Joined: Jan 31, 2007

Location: Danville, CA

Re: Very poor gas mileage

I live a little south of you in Danville, CA (east of Oakland) so probably use the same "California winter blend" as you. I usually use Chevron or Shell and see no reduction in gas mileage on any of my motorcycles (R1200RT, K1200S) or my car so I doubt your dealers explaination.

Posted on 01/31/2007 at 19:48

Rickyj

Joined: Jan 16, 2007

Location: Apex, NC

Re: Very poor gas mileage

A 40% drop in gas mileage is extremely unusual, especially if the bike isn't running roughly or noticeably different. And I certainly would expect better gas mileage from a boxer engine than 25 mpg. Do you know what mileage you're getting from highway vs. city driving?

Posted on 01/31/2007 at 23:13

Onefastbob

Joined: Feb 01, 2007

Location: Cunningham, KS

Re: Very poor gas mileage

This may or may not help. If that were my bike I would disconnect the battery for 30 min. then reconnect it. I will relearn all it's settings and that may fix the problem. Sure would be worth trying.

Thanks

Bob

Posted on 02/01/2007 at 20:21

Blaney14j

Joined: Jan 31, 2007

Location: Babylon, NY

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Onefastbob said:

This may or may not help. If that were my bike I would disconnect the battery for 30 min. then reconnect it. I will relearn all it's settings and that may fix the problem. Sure would be worth trying

too bad the battery on a R12CFL is under the tank!

---------------------------------

Blaney

Posted on 02/01/2007 at 22:55

Geoff

Joined: Feb 02, 2007

Location: Naperville, IL

Re: Very poor gas mileage

In the Midwest and other cold weather states, gas stations use a winter fuel that's blended to help prevent fuel line freeze-up. Many say this fuel contributes to lower MPG. A 40% drop is significant, however. Your bike might have a weak spark, or it might need a re-map to refresh the EFI system. Was the factory map modified?

---------------------------------

1994 K1100RS & 2005 Harley Electra Glide

Posted on 02/02/2007 at 14:25

Baker330i

Joined: Feb 01, 2007

Location: Roswell, GA

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Ray,

I have found that sometimes when you get

a huge drop in MPG the O2 sensor is a likely

culprit.I have personally had this happen to

me.The odd thing about a bad O2 sensor it

is not always picked up by BMW GT computer

(both times it happen to me computer showed

no faults)

Best way to check is with gas analyzer

MB

Posted on 02/02/2007 at 17:13

Csteinman

Joined: Dec 24, 2006

Location: Austin, TX

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Hmmm . . .

Drop in gas mileage . . . a fuel smell . . . no noticeable change in engine response . . .

I'm going to go with: a slow leak in one of the the quick connects in your fuel lines between the tank and the fuel rail. The fuel lines will only leak when the bike is running. You might want to let the bike idle and check (with a flashlight) for a slow dripping fuel leak in the quick connects.

Just a guess, and please let us know what the problem ends being.

Charlie

---------------------------------

401K? Retirement? Ha! Don't be ridiculous!

Posted on 02/02/2007 at 19:02

Koski69

Joined: Feb 02, 2007

Location: Pleasanton, CA

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Since you're in California, you should have a charcoal cannister. Check to make sure the inlet hose from the fuel tank is in good shape and attached securely.

Posted on 02/02/2007 at 20:44

Ray

Joined: Jan 31, 2007

Location: SACRAMENTO, CA

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Thanks for all of the responses.

I do not want to work on the bike myself being as I am still in warranty, so I won't be able to try your various suggestions... I have again taken it to the shop for the 3rd time and also sent them most of my forum and email letters and that seems to have awakened them to take a closer look at this problem.

I will now try to answer all of your great ideas, if I can.

R100gspd: I am pretty sure that they rebooted the computer at the shop the first time, though I was not given any real detailed receipt of the work done. They mentioned that they had checked it out, but I can only take their word for it. It would seem silly for them not to do it. They mentioned that my tire pressure was a pound or two low, but nothing serious. It just started getting the bad mileage one day without any obvious signs. No mention of the plugs condition.
I tested it by driving to a nearby town and back, which is about 80 miles round trip and the odometer odometerized OK. lol

Roborider: That is the same question that the shop originally ask. As for a sensor error, that is for the shop to determine. Again, I am not going to touch it while under warranty. I will have plenty of time for that in about 6 months. I do prefer to have it fixed on their dime. I can fill the tank and after a dab more than 75 miles the reserve light comes on and by the time I get to a station, I have gone about 81-84 miles and at refill will add 3.1 - 3.3 gallons. By the way, that is how I noticed the change. I usually reset my odometer at every fill up, even before I noted the problem.

Def38: It is now in the shop, but some good suggestions. Never did check the air filter. Haven't been near any off road places and only have about 3200 mi on it.

Lblake49: I also doubted their explanation and that is why I decided to do a little research on my own. I have owned enough bikes to know when I am having wind blown up my er, tail pipe... ;>) I usually use ARCO, the cheapy stations.

Rickyj; No, Ricky, most of my driving is mixed. To get any where in Sacramento, you usually have to use the freeways, the town is basically spaced out. Not like SF, NY or LA. Hell, we have mosquitos down town. that should tell you something. lol

Onefastbob; Don't think that I wasn't tempted, but like I have said before, "Warranty". Very good point though.

Blaney14j; I think that I would make a very good politician, because I also agree with you. lol Me no touchie for now. ;-}

Geoff; Nothing has been modified so that any changes to the EFI could only have been done by the shop/factory. I will try to let you all know what they have found when I get it back from the shop.

Baker330i; A very good point and one that hasn't been suggested before, regarding the O2 sensor. Will call the shop tomorrow and see what they think about it.

Csteinman; I thought about the quick connects leaking and also the automatic fuel valve shutoff malfunctioning. Nothing found to show any leaks, cases dry, floor clean and dry and the only thing that isn't dry are the tears on my face.

Koski69; They should have checked that the second time I took it in. Also, I think that I heard about a recall on one of the bikes for that very thing.

Before I took it in did a quick recheck yesterday and found that the fuel smell was coming from the exhaust. It was running very rich and I just couldn't tell you as to how the shop missed it.

When I went there and mention the smoke was instructed on boxers as to why all the grey smoke and fuel smell but I guess I am just hardheaded and feel that I was being talked down to, regarding bikes.

I must look really dumb or have scared the pants off of them.

In reality, I think that they all mean well and they want to fix the problem just as much as I want it fixed. After all, it is a fairly strange symptom.

Give me about a week or two to get back here to give you the info on what they have found.

And thanks again, all of you, for the great support.

Ray

Posted on 02/03/2007 at 04:48

Csteinman

Joined: Dec 24, 2006

Location: Austin, TX

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Thanks Ray.

It sure sounds like the culprit might be the O2 sensor. For some reason, the zero-zero setting of the throttle position sensors are popping into my mind. You'd probably feel that in the engine though.

Let us know . . .

Charlie

---------------------------------

401K? Retirement? Ha! Don't be ridiculous!

Posted on 02/03/2007 at 08:51

Def38

Joined: Jan 21, 2007

Location: Katy, TX

Re: Very poor gas mileage

Koski69 said:

Since you're in California, you should have a charcoal cannister. Check to make sure the inlet hose from the fuel tank is in good shape and attached securely.

BMWs are compliant in all 50 states and therefore, all have a cannister. The previous poster who suggested a fuel leak is likely correct. The smell of fuel should be the tipoff.

---------------------------------

Dennis

Posted on 02/04/2007 at 09:58

Forums > Maintenance > Very poor gas mileage